Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

topic posted Fri, December 23, 2005 - 8:17 PM by  Dave
There are so many mysteries, and incomplete historical references, and just plain as yet unexplained things in this story. I have a bunch floating around in my head that i'm dying to read about.

My favorite is that i want to know about Howland Reed. I want to know what he's like, what he's been doing all this time, and what he did to save Ned Stark's life at the Tower of Joy - apparently he hasn't left Greywater watch since since that happened. I'm upset he didn't enter this last book.

What happened during 'The Doom' in Old Valyria?

Of course . . . Who is Jon Snow the progeny of?

There are so many more. I was curious what other ones are making you other people crazy to find out about. Or just any old thing - i'm just hoping for a kind of list here - that is still yet unknown.
posted by:
Dave
SF Bay Area
  • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

    Fri, December 23, 2005 - 11:03 PM
    I know how you feel...I have a hundred ideas of how this story could unfold, I have hopes for certain developments and conclusions...but I'm positive that George will surprise me again and again in the next two books...

    I put myself in perpective when I get impaitent. Eventually I will have the whole story, and when I do, I will have it for the rest of my days, to savor again and again...

    And I will.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

      Sun, December 25, 2005 - 10:40 PM
      The Howland Reed story line has me by the tail too. I can't wait to see some of his prespective to the story it's got to be coming up soon. Especially, if one of his secrets is that he knows Jon's true identity! GRRM rocks! I can't wait for the next book!
      • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

        Mon, January 2, 2006 - 3:48 PM
        Here's a mystery. Can Brienne really die? Could it be possible that Thoros would give her the kiss of life?
        • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

          Mon, January 2, 2006 - 3:51 PM
          Another mystery. Who will champion Cersei? If her champion wins, she remains as regent, doesn't she? Then she can continue to wreak havoc.

          However, if she should die. . .what will replace her as the dominant evil threat? Would it be the Others??? Or will it be the sea raiders?
          • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

            Sat, May 24, 2008 - 12:32 PM
            THE MOUNTAIN WILL CHAMPION CERSEI LANNISTER!!!! yes, i know, the mountain died. However, go back to aGoT, when Bran's first dreaming with the three-eyed crow (i just reread this part). He has many visions. One of them is a "huge knight, but when Bran opened the visor all he saw was death", or something similar. Undoubtedly there'll be some black magic involved, but THE MOUNTAIN WILL FIGHT.
            • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

              Sun, May 25, 2008 - 9:42 AM
              "THE MOUNTAIN WILL CHAMPION CERSEI LANNISTER!!!!"

              I just don't buy it. The Mountain wasn't in the Kingsguard and Qyburn's frankenstein most certainly isn't in the Kingsguard and the Kingsguard must defend the royalty.

              It's possible that Qyburn could get frankenMountain instated if he could get to Tommen but that doesn't seem very likely without someone else's help and I just don't see a character that's there and that would profit from Cersei's survival. Knowing Martin though, he might just get Varys to use his knowledge of the Red Keep to get Qyburn to Tommen in order to instate FrankenMountain so that Cersei stays regent so that The Seven Kingdoms stays a complete wreck (making it easier for Dany to come and take over.

              But there really are SO MANY possibilities.
  • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

    Sun, February 12, 2006 - 8:02 PM
    If we do get to find out about Howland Reed and Cersei, it won't be til AFTER Dance w/Dragons, if GRRM follows through with what he said in Feast's afterword.
    d'oh!
    I re-read bits and pieces of Song all the time. Funny Howland Reed is here from last year when I read about him today and was wondering about all that. It certainly adds more of the 'higher mysteries" element in there, despite that the maesters say there is no magic. (To me, seeing as how Jojen is a greenseer, and the crannogment are not knights - I mean, if Howland Reed had Lyanna help him in the tourney then how did he defeat the Sword of Morning?)
    I would like to know who the "corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly" is....When Dany saw her vision in the House of the Undying, many of the things listed either hadn't happened or had yet to be explained, including the kiss of fire) Hmm. Whether Euron is dead or alive, I don't see him smiling sadly....and his lips are blue not grey. And he only has the one eye....But he's still the only one I can come up with.
    If Thoros could give the kiss, does that mean Melisandre has the same kiss up her sleeve?
    To make things really interesting in King's Landing, either both champions will kill each other (check) or Tommen will actually intervene because he is the king after all, but mostly I'm thinking the High Septon is about to become a lot more .... Borgia like perhaps? lol
  • Ok, gathering bits and pieces from the first few books, I have come to some possible conclusions about John Snow.
    I do not think that Jon is Ned's son at all. Through various hints which I can cover if needed, I think that Ned took Jon to hide him from Robert, and here is why:
    The Tourney at Harrenhal, before the war of the Usurper, Rhaegar Targaryen gave a blue rose to Lyanna (Dany had the vision of the blue rose on the wall) then, during the sack of kings landing, Lyanna way in a "Bed of blood" aka, childbirth, and simply said "Promise me Ned".
    Robert hates all things Targaryen, and would have killed the child, so Ned takes the child to Winterfell after the war, and claims him as his bastard. He would dishonor his reputation of fidelity before he would break his promise to his sister.

    I would love to here other takes on this.
    • yep, R+L=J

      ; )
      • eh, I know everyone probably knew that already, but as I only discovered the series in March, it's still exciting to me lol.
        • no, they're great observations! and you never know, when new eyes read the books they can pick up on stuff that others have missed ; )
          I learn something new every time I reread them... hehehehe
          • I would be on the Rhaegar and Lyanna thign too but it seems toooo obvious, I think that it actually has something to do with Jon Arryn. Involving something to do with why he was killed. It seems kind of crappy to leave jon like that, he was killed, had a shitty wife and a wussy son. cut him some slack.

            So to not go with the R +L (which has been the prevailing opinion for the past two years)
            I say it was jon A and lyanna...eh?
            • I too am leary of the obvious Rhaegar/Lyanna scenario, though I've been holding it as the only logical answer with the information we have thus far.

              The reason I'm really distrustful of it's obviousness (and yet lured by it it in other aspects) is because I think Jon and Dany are destined to rule together...and while Dany would have no qualms about the incestuous manner of the relationship, in fact she would probably be encouraged by it due to her family history, Jon probably would not be so comfy with it.
              • Unsu...
                 
                Dunno why, exactly, the obvious is thrown about as a "bad thing".

                It was obvious to you, it was obvious, it was obvious to a lot of people. It was not, however, exactly spelled out in small words, and there were quite a few exceptionally sharp readers who did not put the memory montage together for themselves.

                Personally, I tend towards being leery of the Jon + Dany rulership scenario.

                I'm all for happy endings and whatnot, but that's just a tad too "ever after" - at least from my take on the story.
                • Hello,
                  Thank you, I had indeed never thought that John may be Liana's son. So I don't find it too obvious for my taste...
                  I have a question about Arya which I posted on another topic but as the messages are more recent here and I find it a mystery, I re-post:
                  Why do you think Arya did not kill the Hound when she left him. Do you really believe what she said that he deserves a more painful death? I feel she just did not want to kill him either because she wasn't sure he deserved to die at her hand or because she did not have the courage to do it. Anyway, I think the Hound's fate is linked to that of Sansa and I really hope they get to meet again some day (Sorry, maybe that happened already I only read the 3 first books so far).
                  Thanks for any hint/comments on this topic.

                  All the best,
                  Séverine
  • Ok, any ideas about what the tapestries are all about? The ones that Littlefinger requested from Cersei to be sent to him. It was mentioned twice in Feast, once in a Sansa chapter (by Littlefinger himself) and once in a Cersei chapter, during a Small Council gathering. She said they were some of Robert's old tapestries. Hmmm?

    And, also, can anyone guess which word Brienne might have screamed to get out of her predicament?
    • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

      Thu, June 12, 2008 - 7:32 AM
      I think this one was obvious to me - she screamed Jaime's name! She did it out of desperation, calling for the only person she really felt close to at that point, but her captors would have taken it differently. They gave her an ultimatum - chose to kill Jaime or choose death. They would interpret her screaming his name as chosing to kill him at the last minute in order to spare her own life. This, in my mind, is strengthened by the chapter where Jaime loses his hand, which ends - "Jaime screamed" - very close to - "She screamed a word." On a side note, am I the only one dissapointed that Pod might be dead, too? I was really starting to like that guy . . .
  • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

    Sat, May 24, 2008 - 12:29 PM
    since "the Doom" essentially wiped out most of Valyria, little is known about it. however, it's agreed upon that it was a natural disaster (most likely a volcanic eruption) that destroyed most of the island

    the concept of Jon being the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar is old news. in the beginning of aGoT (i suggest we all go back and read the first couple chapters of that), Jon is described having the "stark" appearance, and catelyn swears that robb is the shadow of his father when he is in Riverrun. However, in the beginning chapters, Jon and Robb are described as very different in topics such as skin complexion, build, hair color, etc. It's no accident that Jon has many of the Targaryen traits. Jon Arryn's death was because he found out about Jaime and Cersei, not because he fathered Jon Snow.

    Now that the Internet has exposed that Jon is a Targaryen, here's my theory: There will be three wars throughout ASoIaF. The first one is The War of Five Kings, which resulted in the Lannisters holding the throne. The second war will happen when Dany crosses the sea with her army. Dany will take control of the throne because the Lannisters are basically the only people who aren't completely knocked on their arses. The final war will be at the Wall with Jon (Ice) and Dany (Fire) fighting the Others, giants and children of the forest. Feel free to criticize or give a different theory.

    Oh, and btw, here's a fun fact: Renly and Ser Loras had a love affair. Martin even confirmed it.
    • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

      Thu, June 12, 2008 - 7:51 AM
      Yeah, I think I heard somewhere from martin himself that the War of the Five Kings was over and the War of the Queens was about to begin. The stage is certainly set. Think of all the potential 'queens' - Dany, Cersie, Margaery, Sansa (remember, Littlefinger promised her the North, granting her that AND the Vale of Arryn), etc. And Jon has to be = R + L. 'R' is most likely Rhaegar (fire) and Lyanna would be 'ice' . . . and "his is the song of ice and fire"! That's a direct line from the series when Dani sees her visions, I think (don't have the books with me). But . . . wouldn't it be awesome if Jon was another of Robert's 16 bastards. He was in love with Lyanna, too, and he made no bones about it. Perhaps Rhaegar kidnapped her after Robert got her pregnant, but it wouldn't explain why Ned kept it a secret, unless that was part of the promise he made. I would like to point out that, if this were the case, R + L = J still counts : )
      • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

        Thu, June 12, 2008 - 8:31 AM
        Oh yeah - my mystery is this - Rickon Stark! I believe he has a major role in the story and it seems that Martin is keeping him tucked safely away almost to make you forget he's there, like an ace up his sleeve. He is a trueborn stark and he has a direwolf (sorry, Sansa). It seems to me like he might even make a better warg than Bran, since as a very young child he would excercise very little discretion in his bond with his wolf. Osha seems to know a great deal and maybe she'll train him for a service all her own, but I think what we are heading toward is this - all the Stark children and Jon will be able to communicate over long distances, excluding Sansa who is becoming a completely different person, anyway. Jon will also probably be one of the heads of the Dragon, along with Dani and Tyrion (as all their mothers died in childbirth and Tyrion and Jon had that conversation in AGoT about wishing they could ride dragons on the way up to the Wall). There will be a challenge with Euron since he claims to be able to control the dragons with his horn (the 'fire' horn, opposite of the Horn of Winter), but Victarion will confront him in Dani's defense, thus adding a climax to his hatred of the man. I'll stop here, because I think I've said to much, but it's so hard to stop sometimes . . .
        • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

          Fri, June 13, 2008 - 12:05 PM
          Sorry to kill the R+L=J theory, but . . . I think I have pretty solid evidence against it. Dany, as with all Targaryens, seem to have a resistance to fire. JON DOES NOT HAVE THIS TRAIT! He burned his hand when he saved Jeor Mormont from the wight (they even make continual references to this throughout the story afterword, every time his flexing his sword hand). If you're not familiar with this theory it's easy enough to find online. It used to excite me and seemed to make perfect sense, but it seems to me now to be truly debunked. Sorry, folks.
          • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

            Tue, July 1, 2008 - 4:43 PM
            The Wights are not the same type of fire.

            In rereading A Game of Thrones, Ned refers to the mother of Jon as "Wylla".
            • Re: Mysteries (probably a *SPOILERS* thread)

              Wed, July 2, 2008 - 6:58 AM
              He didn't burn his hand 'from' the wight, he burned it in real actual flames while killing the wight. Since I wrote this, however, I've read on another forum that the issue had been addressed. Apparently GRRM stated that being 'unburnt' was a trait specific to Dany and that most Targaryans do burn like everyone else..

              Wylla was a handmaid to Ashara Dayne. Someone else from that house says in the books that he and Jon are milk brothers, which means they shared the same wet nurse (the woman who provides milk for them in place of the mother). This signifies that she wasn't truly his mother, but Ned simply said this to calm Catelyn's worry (it would have been worse if Jon's mother was high born, as then he would be a rival to Robb as heir to Winterfell)

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